Unlike some other passages, this one didn’t come to me quickly, but as I though more deeply into the meaning of the passage, I heard the song ringing in my head. I believe the lines “My mind has been dragged down so far, Lesbia, thanks to you, and squandered itself so much in its devotion” show that Lesbia has left, and his efforts have been in vane. Which is reflected when The Doors sing “Don’t you love her madly? Wanna be her daddy? Don’t ya love her face? Don’t ya love her as she’s walkin’ out the door” which shows the love for the woman in the song, even as she’s leaving him, which is also how Catullus feels. However, where it becomes interesting is when Catullus says, “that it could no longer love you, even if you were perfect, or stop wanting you, no matter what you did.” I believe this is Catullus going between “Loving her madly” and being indifferent to her not being there for him. The similarity is that he could not stop wanting her, even though she has caused his mind to squander itself over loving her madly.
The other interesting passage from the song are the lines “All your love is gone So sing a lonely song Of a deep blue dream Seven horses seem to be on the mark.” The seven horses is most likely a reference to the biblical story of the apocalypse, which is a day of reckoning as she walks out the door, and at the same time Catullus is reckoning with how Lesbia has caused him such turmoil in his life.
(Catullus 75)
My mind has been dragged down so far, Lesbia, thanks to you,
and squandered itself so much in its devotion,
that it could no longer love you, even if you were perfect,
or stop wanting you, no matter what you did.
Both the ancient poem and the modern song characterize love as an almost painful force that physically affects a person. For example, in Sappho’s love poem, “a slender flame” touches the narrator’s skin and she is so overcome that she feels “little short of dead”. Unlike the traditional idea of love being a gentle and sweet thing, this poem talks about love as a violent passion. In addition, the song by Borns begins with saying “You dug my heart a grave”, as if love buries and kills the heart. Despite being from two different eras, Sappho and Borns both see love in a different light than most others as they focus on how it really feels to love someone. They convey the agony and almost illness caused by their feelings toward their lovers.
Sappho illustrates the narrator’s feelings as the narrator is with the person they love. On the other hand, Borns writes about the pain he feels as he reminisces over his experiences with the woman he loves. Sappho’s poem is more of an illustration of fascination , while “Dug My Heart” is more of a longing for someone after being with them because their past experiences were so sweet. Either way, there is pain associated with their feelings of love.
Sappho
31(L-P) lines 1-17
He seems to me the equal of the gods, that man, who sits with you face to face and, near you, listens closely to your lilting voice, your tempting laugh, which sets my heart a-flutter in my breast. For when I see you even a moment, I can’t speak any longer, but my tongue goes mute…,a sudden, slender flame invades my flesh, my eyes go dark, my ears are roaring, cold sweat covers me, a trembling seizes all my body, paler than grass am I, and little short of dead I seem to myself.
Love is often a strong, arguably the strongest, form of expression. Expressing such a strong feeling or desire can sometimes feel like a tentative task, opening a lover to a potential rejection or embarrassment. Love is complex in nature and houses a string of emotions, so it’s natural for people to be hesitant in revealing some of their deepest feelings of affection. At times, it is even meant to be guarded like a sacred gem, an intangible exclusivity, an expression with great value. In Plutarch’s work of giving advice to married couples, he upholds the importance of guarding such deep expressions. His account on this advice starts with Theano, who accidentally exposed her hand in public and asserted it was not public property after being told it was beautiful. Plutarch continues and says, “Not only the arms but the words of a modest women must never be public property, She should be shy with her speech as with her body, and guard it against strangers. Feelings, character, and disposition can all be seen in a woman’s talk.” Plutarch advises on being careful with how women should present themselves, orally and physically. This idea of being reserved can also be seen, or rather heard, in Kanye’s song “Love Lockdown.” As the title of the song may suggest, Kanye is advising someone to keep their love hidden throughout the song. One way to read his lyrics is that the person he is referring to should not show their love, unless they want to get hurt. Kanye specifically states he isn’t loving her the way he wanted to, pointing to an unsuccessful relationship. He hopes to prevent her any future harm by telling her to essentially lock in her feelings.
Despite their similarities, it’s important to observe Plutarch defensive advice as one that is more extensive. Feelings, character, and disposition are to be guarded, not just feelings that may come with love. On the other hand, Kanye is directly singing about love, specifically unrequited love. His perspective is tailored to a more couple based situation, while Plutarch’s advice is far reaching, including public and private encounters.
Plutarch’s Advice to the Bride and Groom and A Consolation to His Wife
Both the song and the verse by Catullus speak of not loving the person they once loved. In the song, this is shown by the phrase “I don’t want your love no more” and name of the song expressed this idea as well. In Catullus, the love was lost due to the mind of the speaker being ‘dragged down’ by their relationship and thus their love was lost. The speaker was so devoted to the other person in the relationship that ended up caused the love for their relationship to vanish. However, this did cause the speaker to stop wanting the other person in the relationship.
For the verse from the ancient text, the speaker spoke about not being able to stop wanting the other person no matter what they did. This displays how the devotion to the other person was so strong that even though the love was gone, the feeling of wanting the other person in their life did not go away. However, in the song by Loud Luxury, there does not seem to be wanting of the person anymore. This can be seen by the phrase describing them as “dancing with the devil.” Also, the phrase “I think I had enough” shows how the speaker wants to be disconnected from the other person entirely.
Catullus Verse 75
My mind has been dragged down so far, Lesbia, thanks to you, and squandered itself so much in its devotion, that it could no longer love you, even if you were perfect, or stop wanting you, no matter what you did.
Joy Division’s song “Love Will Tear Us Apart” is bitter love song about how love will ruin a relationship. In book four of Lucretius’ On the Nature of Things, Lucretius takes a very unromantic view on love claiming that it will ruin you. It will make you stop working on the things you should be working on and you will become addicted to the sabotage you are bringing to your life. They both highlight the negatives of being in love—being addicted and hurt by this feeling that you can’t just get over. They both have these painfully negative views on what love does. It will ruin relationships and lives and bring nothing more than pain and sadness and lack of productivity.
Lucretius doesn’t discuss being scorned by love in his writing, though, whereas the Joy Division comes off as a someone being deeply hurt by a romantic love and things not working out. It sounds as if in the Joy Division song, the narrator once believed in love and is hurt that it didn’t work out or live up to what they had wanted. Lucretius just comes off as against the idea entirely without giving any background into his own experience with love.
“Remember too that the lover consumes his strength and is exhausted by the strain; remember that his life is ruled by another. His duties are neglected; his reputation totters and dwindles.” (1122-1124)
Through Lucretius’ work in “On the nature of things,” we are able to view the many ways love can be seen as damaging. Of the many, one that is very intriguing is the act of adorning a mistress in luxurious garments and jewelry. Being presented in such luxury can be a display of one’s status, someone without a good fortune would not be able to present themselves in high-quality garments and jewelry. It can also be a representation of love, a male lover providing these objects to his mistress must surely have a strong love and desire for her or else he wouldn’t have done so otherwise. Love could also be attributed to the mistress, as she puts the effort to display the best of her beauty for her lover. With all these angled approaches to luxury and love, it’s fair to say they often have a strong connection of some sort. This was my thought process as I listened to a song by one of my favorite artists, Fashion Killa by A$AP Rocky. The song talks about a female partner who figuratively kills fashion because she does it so well. The outfits she puts together places her in a league of her own. She, like the mistress’ Lucretius writes about, is too adorned with statements of luxury, just more contemporary forms of it, “My b**** a fashion killa, she be busy popping tags. She got a lotta Prada, that Dolce and Gabbana. I can’t forget Escada, and that Balenciaga.” A$AP name drops many luxury clothing brands of today. Being busy “popping tags” simply implies she has many of these luxury items, not just a few. Similarly with Lucretius, “His mistress’ feet sparkle with lovely slippers from Sicyon. You may be sure too that she wears huge green-gleaming emeralds enchased in gold, and that her sea-blue gown, worn out by constant use, soaks up the sweat of Venus.” The presence of luxury through clothing is here as well, the female is presenting a version of herself enhanced by valuable material objects.
The connection with luxury and clothing is surely there between A$AP Rocky’s song and Lucretius’ book, however, they become very different when looking at the bigger picture. Lucretius’ view on the matter is more negative for the male lover. Generally speaking, his idea is that women are expensive and this can be detrimental to a man’s fortune, fortunes that may or may not even be his. In A$AP Rocky’s song, he has a more positive view to his partners lavish lifestyle. He seems to embrace it and even compliment her taste.
Lucretius – On The Nature of Things
“His mistress’ feet sparkle with lovely slippers from Sicyon. You may be sure too that she wears huge green-gleaming emeralds enchased in gold, and that her sea-blue gown, worn out by constant use, soaks up the sweat of Venus.”
In the tale of Medea by Euripides, translated by A.J. Podlecki, we can see the tale of a scorned woman as her husband Jason decides to chase after a new love interest, and leaves Medea by her lonesome in the process. The song “Mama’s Broken Heart” by Miranda Lambert also shows the tale of a woman scorned by love. These two pieces are both very similar in that they both reflect the societal pressure for a woman to maintain her composure after being burned by love. However, in both cases, the women choose instead to outwardly express their vitriol and hatred outwardly, albeit through different means. In Medea, it is written “I’ll punish him, with God’s help./The children he had by me he’ll never see/Alive…Let no one think of me as ‘poor’ or ‘weak’”(Medea, 801-806). We can see a similar sentiment in Miranda Lambert’s song when she sings “Leave it to me to be holdin’ the matches/When the fire trucks show up and there’s nobody else to blame…Can’t get revenge and keep a spotless reputation/ Sometimes revenge is a choice you gotta make”.
One distinction between the two songs is the reason for the hatred by these two women. Jason left Medea for another woman, while the love interest for Miranda Lambert is not given a reason for leaving. Another distinct difference is that the pressure for Medea comes from the foreign society that she now lives in and absent of any familial ties, whereas the pressure for Miranda Lambert is partly due to society and partly due to her own mother.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yg05svXp98
“I’ll punish him, with God’s help./The children he had by me he’ll never see/Alive…Let no one think of me as ‘poor’ or ‘weak’”(Madea,801-806)
The Ars Amatoria acts as a guide to love, it answers all the core burning questions of the hopeful lover. Questions such as who to love, how to love, and where to love. So, what musician also takes the time to instruct lovers in the art of love?
Kanye West’s song “The New Workout Plan” acts a similar type of guide for women on how to make themselves attractive to men. This focus on women aligns nicely with book 3 of the Ars – wherein Ovid directly advises women on the art of love. Before diving deeper into the thematic parallels between the song and the book, it should be noted that both of these works are written from the perspective of a man telling women what they need to do to become more desirable, meaning that we end up with highly biased views on erotic/romantic love and the role women play in these loves. Such a similar perspective shows the lasting power of men thinking they should tell women how act to be attractive.
Both artists place upmost importance on how women’s bodies should look. Ovid makes this clear when he says, “Cultivation comes first, the proper care of the body… take pains to improve the endowments that nature has given;” (Ovid, Ars Amatoria, lns. 101-104). West, similarly, believes that women should take care of their bodies, “get them sit ups right/Tuck your tummy tight and do your crunches like this”. West also believes certain pains must be taken to improve one’s physique which is evident when he says, “All you mocha lattes, gotta do Pilates” and “Eat your salad, no dessert, get that man you deserve”. Women must shape themselves into something desirable to men, even at the cost of their own enjoyment, because their natural state is simply not adequate in either of the artists’ times. In a somewhat amusing vein, both men also talk about how women’s breath smells. Ovid’s advice is to “Eat a lozenge or two if you think your breath is offensive… speak from some distance away.” (Ovid, Ars Amatoria, lns. 277-278) while West says, “Ooh girl your breath is harsh!/Cover your mouth up like you got SARS”. This more shows that both cultures take hygiene seriously, but I still found it curious how two artist thousands of years apart mentioned bad breath in their advice to women.
Ovid’s extensive manual to feminine attractive behavior is genuine; his work indicates what he truly believes women should do to take control of their sexuality and romantic lives. West’s more abrasive take (as I have left a great deal more saucy bits out) may be considered satirical – he seems to aptly skewer the immense pressures women are under and all the hoops they have to jump through for love, especially if they want to social climb and end up with men that belong to highly desirable groups such as NBA players (or just dudes with cars). If it is satirical, it is exceptionally well done. If it is genuine, Kanye might have more in common with Ovid than I thought.
Book 3 Lns 101-104 – “Cultivation comes first, the proper care of the body… So, take pains to improve the endowments nature has given;”
Book 3 Lns 277-278 – “Eat a lozenge or two, if you think your breath is offensive, If you have something to say, speak from some distance away.”
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This ancient excerpt from Ovid’s The Art of Love reminded me of the introduction to Musta Got Lost because of the brazen pursuit of love. Ovid describes that one should “be a confident soul, and spread your nets with assurance,” and through this the song describes a man who approaches the house of the girl he wants and “starts poundin on her door.” When she opens up the door, he comes in and starts pleading with her not to listen to the rumors of others because “you know her and me was at the party as friends – Do not believe what they say That’s only gossip that they tellin ya – A wise crack of lies!.” Meanwhile, Ovid continues to describe that “sooner would birds in the spring be silent, or locusts in August… than would a woman, well-wooed, refuse to succumb to a lover; She’ll make you think she means No! while she is planner her Yes!” To him, and likewise to The J. Geils Band, she is there for him if he boldly woos her, and pursues her, which he is doing by going over to her house after midnight to see her.
However, what is different is that Ovid was speaking of a new woman, where in the song Must of Got Lost, it implies that he was lost in his ways and likely did something wrong, instead of coming from a position of virtue and new pursuit. I see the main difference between these two is the position of the pursuers, but in both cases they are confidently souls.
First: be a confident soul, and spread your nets with assurance. Women can always be caught; that’s the first rule of the game.
Sooner would birds in the spring be silent, or locusts in August, Sooner would hounds run away when the fierce rabbits pursue,
Than would a woman, well-wooed, refuse to succumb to a lover; She’ll make you think she means No! while she is planning her Yes!
Love on the sly delights men; it is equally pleasing to women. Men are poor at pretense; women can hide their desire.
It’s a convention, no more, that men play the part of pursuer. Women don’t run after us; mousetraps don’t run after mice.
(Ancient Text by , translated by ) and (Contemporary Song by )
Ovid’s poem describes the struggles of a man who is attracted to married women. In particular, 2.19 focuses on his relationship with Corinna, a woman who’s aware of how attractive she is and uses this to her advantage. Corinna essentially plays the narrator by only returning his affections when she sees fit and by seeing other men behind his back. When reading this poem, the description of Corinna felt very familiar to me because she is very similar to the character Maureen from Rent. Maureen is similar to Corinna in that she is notorious for cheating on her partners. What also makes these two situations incredibly similar is that just like how the narrator is warning other men about holding onto their wives, in the song “The Tango Maureen” Mark, Maureen’s former lover, is warning Joanne, Maureen’s current lover, about the dangers of falling to Maureen. In both of these works, the narrators describe how their lovers dupe them. In Ovid’s poem, Corinna would “feign guilt” to get what she wanted and how even after being dismissed by her the narrator would “lingered, heavy footed”. This is similar to Maureen’s behavior in that she often “pouted her lips and called you ‘Pookie'” to get what she wanted and how despite harsh dismissal sometimes Joanne would still “you yearn and you churn and rebound”.
While these two works are extremely similar, one distinct difference is that in the case of Ovid’s work, Corinna may be wronging the narrator, but technically he is also at fault since Corinna is a married woman. So both Corinna and the narrator in Ovid’s work are problematic and slightly unreliable characters. In comparison, in “The Tango Maureen” and Rent as a whole, Maureen is the only problematic character in this couple. Neither Joanne nor Mark did anything wrong in their relationships with her and instead stood by her despite some of the horrible things she did to them. So in this regard, “The Tango Maureen” is more of a reliable work because it is narrated by two innocent and reliable characters who are singing about the same problematic woman.
Ovid 2.19
Bing and Cohen
Cunning Corinna saw this weakness of mine,
a tricky girl, she knew how I would be caught.
How often, when she was fine, she’d fake a headache
and tell me to leave, while I lingered, heavy footed.
How often she feigned guilt, and – as much as an innocent
girl can – offered me the semblance of a cheater.
That way, when she’d wrecked me and stroked the cooling fire,
again she’d be kind, responsive to my desires.
How many sweet nothings she told me, what sweet words she cooked up.
Ovid’s poem 3.11b is about a narrator falling in love with a beautiful women who is a bit infidelitous. Despite often trying to leave her for her disloyalty, he can’t help but be drawn back in by her looks and her charm. Between the imagery and the language used in this poem, I could not help but relate this to the song Take Me or Leave Me from Rent. In this song, Joanne is engaged to be married to Maureen. However, similar to Ovid’s narrator and his mystery lover, Maureen is unfaithful to Joanne and now Joanne is unsure of what to do. In both works, the leaving party uses similar language when talking about their behavior. The narrator from Ovid’s poem uses the phrase “I flee your depravity, but your body drags me back from flight” whereas in the musical/movie Joanne establishes this by singing “I hate mess but I love you” while embracing Maureen. Also, Ovid’s narrator admits that “can’t live with or without you” while Joanne also echoes the same sentiment with “can’t live with them or without them”.
The main difference between these two works is that Ovid’s poem only shows the narrator’s side of the story. In this, we only see the narrator accusing his lover of being unfaithful as well as him professing his love for her. In Rent, however, we get both Maureen and Joanne’s sides of the story. We get to hear from Maureen about how she’s “just having fun” and from Joanne about how much she loves Maureen in return. So in this case, Ovid’s work would be considered slightly unreliable given that we only get one side of the story whereas in the case of Rent we know for sure that Maureen is being unfaithful and that Joanne loves her.
Ovid 3.11b
Lines 1-6
Bing and Cohen
Love and hate are wrestling, pulling my weak heart
this way and that; but love is winning, I think.
I flee your depravity; your beauty drags me back from flight.
I recoil from your vices, your body I love.
So that I can’t live with you or without you
and seem to have forgotten what I swore.
In Ovid’s second book on love, he is talking about how to find a lover. As part of his advice he says, “Blame whatever she blames; approve what meets her approval; What she says you must say; what she denies, you deny. Laugh when she laughs” (Art of Love Book 2, lines 199-201). Taylor Swift’s song “You Belong With Me” also shares a similar message. In her song, she shares how compatible that she is with the person who she’s in love with. She sings, “I’m the one who makes you laugh When you know you’re about to cry And I know your favorite songs”. She is sharing how she can tell how the person she’s in love with is feeling and knows how to respond.
One difference between Ovid and Taylor swift is that Ovid is trying to give advice to others, and Taylor Swift is talking about her current feelings. Even though their perspectives may vary, their message is still fairly similar. They are both sharing how having similar emotions are very important to a relationship. Being able to share your emotions and them being compatible to your partner are shown to be very important by both Ovid and Taylor Swift.
“Blame whatever she blames; approve what meets her approval;
What she says you must say; what she denies, you deny.
Laugh when she laughs; if she weeps, remember to join her in weeping”
(Ovid, The Art of Love Book 2, Lines 199-201)
Both the song by John Legend and the verses of the ancient text focus on the display of physical love and how it is viewed by other people outside of the relationship. The speakers in both the song, P.D.A., and the verse from Catullus give the readers a sense that neither of them cares about the perception of their relationship because both choose to display their relationship to people each day by being very physical. For the verse in Catullus, this is shown by the phrase “let’s love and not give a dime about the talk.” This emphasizes the fact that the speaker does not focus on the opinions of others concerning their relationship. The song by John Legend repeats the phrase “we don’t care” when speaking about the perceptions and opinions of others which resembles the thoughts in the ancient text.
Although both talk about the physical aspect of love. The song seems to be talking about more than just kissing which is the focus of the ancient text that speaks of “our kisses were so many.” P.D.A. by John Legend speaks of kissing followed by the phrase “maybe we’ll go too far.” This insinuates that the couple does not care if they are being seen committing displays of love that are more passionate and perhaps a more intense way of expressing their feeling for one another.
Chapter 5, Lines 1-3 and 11-13
“Let’s live, my Lesbia, and let’s love and not give a dime for all the talk of overly severe old men.’
“we’ll lose track of the number, so we won’t know, and so no one can give us the evil eye by knowing that our kisses were so many.”
Jealousy is a construct closely related to the issue of love. When feelings run deeply within a person, the ending of a relationship may have drastic effects on the person left behind. In Euripides’ Medea, we see how extreme a scorned lover can be, in this case driven so mad by the actions of the man she thought loved her that Medea resorts to killing her own children. In this instance, Medea’s ruined love for Jason has overshadowed her maternal love so far that she kills her children and flees instead of letting go of her new hatred for Jason. In Placebo’s song the subject also becomes consumed by their need for revenge against a lover, ignoring the apology they have been given. It’s interesting that in both pieces being given an apology causes the woman to feel more wronged, taking the apology as another insult.
Both Placebo’s song and Medea highlight the danger of scorning a loved one to an extreme degree. Love and the choices we make surrounding it can have deadly consequences, especially when someone feels they have been wronged or cheated out of what is theres.
“I moan for the kind of task that I must proceed to accomplish. For I shall put the children to death-
My Children. No one will save them from me.
When I have utterly ruined all Jason’s house…”
Euripides’ Medea- lines 791-794